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CNN'S AMANPOUR
Cartoonist Survived Terror Attack; Europe Faces Many Challenges; Imagine a World
Aired January 21, 2015 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: surviving the "Charlie Hebdo" attack exactly two weeks later, the magazine's new head tells me of his terrifying ordeal. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LAURENT SOURISSEAU, "CHARLIE HEBDO" EDITOR (through translator): I was in the room where the killers burst into the room, opened the door. They appeared with submachine guns. (END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR (voice-over): Plus as Ukraine warns of more Russian troops crossing the border, the E.U. foreign policy chief tells me unity is the best weapon against Moscow. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FEDERICA MOGHERINI, EU FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF: The main point that is surprising and probably also affecting the Russian leadership is our unity, the impossibility to divide us, and I count on us to stay united. (MUSIC PLAYING) AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. It is exactly two weeks since the devastating terror attacks in France against the press, the police and the Jewish community. And with the country still reeling, the prime minister, Manuel Valls, today announced exceptional new measures to combat terrorism. The government, he says, will add nearly 3,000 new security jobs, spend nearly half a billion dollars and push for changes in laws that govern its security agencies. Seventeen people were killed on January 7th, and each scene of carnage has been transformed into a shrine that dignitaries and the public keep coming to in grief and disbelief. Tonight, my guess is Laurent Sourisseau, the "Charlie Hebdo" cartoonist who goes by the name of Riss. He told me about being shot in the shoulder, about the fear that he would be finished off like his colleagues were and about the courage it takes to continue publishing. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Riss, welcome to the program. And we send you really heartfelt condolences for the massive losses of the last two weeks. SOURISSEAU (through translator): Thank you very much. AMANPOUR: Can you tell me your reaction, how did you feel about the 4 million French people who came out and marched in support of you all and of course the 5 million "Survivor" issues of "Charlie Hebdo" that sold out a week ago? SOURISSEAU (through translator): It gave me a sense of comfort because we were extremely violently attacked during those days. And we felt a little alone at that time. And all those people that went out into the streets comforted us and made us realize that we weren't alone. So it really comforted us and gave us the wish to continue. AMANPOUR: Can I take you back two weeks? And I notice that you have your arm bandaged up. They shot you and they shot your colleagues. Can you tell me what happened to you and what you saw that terrible day two weeks ago? SOURISSEAU (through translator): I was in the room where the killers burst into the room, opened the door. They appeared with submachine guns and a colleague who was in front of me was in front of him. As soon as I saw this scene, they started to shoot. Then I lay down on the floor with my face on the ground. And then I just heard the sounds of gunfire. I could just hear the gunfire. I didn't even hear any shouting, any screaming. All I could hear was the gunfire and I had my face to the ground. At one time I heard -- felt something in my shoulder and that's how it happened. AMANPOUR: Riss, we have heard that they asked for Charb by name and maybe others as well. Is that what happened? SOURISSEAU (through translator): Once the shooting was over they approached my colleague, who's called Charb, who's next to me. He was lying down on the floor, his face on the ground and they checked that it was him. They said, "Yes, that's him. That really is him." That was the only one where they pronounced the name "Charb," the only one. AMANPOUR: You managed obviously to get out of there. You survived. You went to hospital. Did you feel safe when you had gotten out? What was it like, those first few days after this attack? SOURISSEAU (through translator): Well, in the hours that followed my hospitalization, I was still anxious because they still -- we still hadn't arrested the killers. So we didn't know where they were. You know, and then they were carry on killing by taking people in the kosher supermarket. So I wondered if there were killers roaming around and who were looking for survivors. So I did wonder if people were not looking for me in the hospital to finish me off. AMANPOUR: Where do you find the strength to come back to work and to take up a position now as head of publication and to continue what is obviously dangerous work? SOURISSEAU (through translator): I don't know that it's a dangerous job. But this magazine has given me so much pleasure for so many years that we can't deprive ourselves of this pleasure because of a gang of killers and because the surviving team wants to carry on. If the team did not want to carry on, we wouldn't be able to carry on. So this is something collective, collectively we want to carry on. And so the journal will carry on. AMANPOUR: Now, Riss, millions of people in France support you; millions of people around the world do as well. And yet many people don't. Many people thought that what you did was incredibly offensive and provocative. I would like to play something that even Pope Francis said just two days ago about what happened. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) POPE FRANCIS (through translator): If Dr. Gaspari (ph), a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then a punch awaits him. But it's normal. It's normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people's faith. One cannot make fun of faith. (END VIDEO CLIP) AMANPOUR: Now he's -- obviously the pope condemned the killings. Obviously he did. But what is your reaction to people who are now saying that, well, you can't make fun of people's faith, otherwise who knows what's going to happen? SOURISSEAU (through translator): First of all, we have to distinguish two things, have to distinguish faith and persons. We have never sought to make fun of people. We have a right to have a faith, to believe in God. But you have a right to make fun of what the religions are saying, of dogma. There's a difference between dogma and individuals. That's the first thing. The second thing: I have convictions which are as precious and important as those who believe. I'm an atheist. As an atheist, my convictions as an atheist must be respected just as much as those of believers. And so I accept to live in a world where people do not have my opinions, to live alongside people who have different opinions and to hear religious convictions that are not mine, that is to live in an open world, to accept more and more living with people who do not have the same ideas. And if there are criticisms that are made, that's not serious. You don't have to take the caricatures for more than what they are, should not attach more importance than when you are a believer. You may not like these caricatures, but is it so serious? It's not so serious. If you don't like the magazine, you don't read it. You push it aside. And "Charlie Hebdo" does not stop people from believing. AMANPOUR: What do you think of various British and American news organizations who did not show the cover last week? SOURISSEAU (through translator): That is their choice. But I'm not criticizing their choice. If people make choices then they have consequences. The fundamental question that I ask is that democratic, large democratic countries like France and United States and Great Britain, is whether we are still in a democracy or if we've slowly become a theocracy. Are we just led by the laws of men, of people for other people? Are we in a political system where laws are of divine origin? Are we still in a democracy or have we become, some would say, a theocracy? That is a fundamental question about what has happened, to me. AMANPOUR: You said that you wish you weren't on the front lines, that you wish somebody else could take your place on the front lines. What is your next step? What is the next step for "Charlie Hebdo"? Do you continue to satirize Islam? SOURISSEAU (through translator): Our principle is to make satire about all religions, second principle to speak about Islam when there's something in the news. We're not speaking about Islam all the time because there are many other things going on, which our magazine must speak about. So Islam is not a priority subject for us. So we will carry on speaking about religions as we've always done, not more and not less. AMANPOUR: And I guess finally you were outsiders. You took pride in poking the establishment and yet the establishment has embraced you now. How do you feel about that? SOURISSEAU (through translator): We are also citizens of the republic. And in certain rather grave moments, we need to go through such moments, what counts also is a democracy of the republic and if in institutions we see people, as I say, conceptions of democracy the republic is us. We do not mind meeting them and shaking hands with them. But what counts is the aim of living in a democracy. AMANPOUR: Riss, thank you very much for joining us and talking to us tonight. And I wish you good luck. SOURISSEAU (through translator): Thank you very much. (END VIDEOTAPE) |
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