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Koppel: During one of Forrest Sawyer's pieces a moment ago, we heard one of your colleagues talking about psychiatry, right?
Miscavige: Right. Koppel: You guys are deaf on psychiatry. The criticism that was made was that this is foreign to the United States. He referred to its origin in Nazism and Communism. And that your religion, Scientology, is an "American" religion. Fair enough so far?
Miscavige: Well, American-of-the-mind. Yeah. That's right. Koppel: What does that do for Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and all the other isms that also did not-- Miscavige: Oh, I think-- Koppel: …originate in this country? Miscavige: Well, no, that isn't really the point. The point there is this -- that those people, the Fascists, the Communists, have used psychiatry to further their ends. That's just a fact. I mean, you want to look at the studies that brought about the Holocaust of the Jews, that the Nazis justified killing the Jews, they were done at the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry in Leipzig, Germany, and that justified the killing of six million people. If you look at the report that even Forrest Sawyer did on mental institutions in Russia -- several months ago he did this -- you saw that that was a tool of the state. That's the point he's making there. But let me tell you what our real problem is. Number one, understand this. Psychiatry, psychology, that comes from the word psyche. Psyche means soul. These people have preempted the field of religion, not just Scientology, every other religion. They right now practice and preach the fact that man is an animal, and I guess that is where philosophically we're at odds with them. But to understand what this war is, this is not something that we started. In fact, 22 days after "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" came out, the attacks from the American Psychiatric Association started. This was the first popular book on the mind ever in existence, it was running up the best-seller list, it was popular with the people. I have the letter sent out by the man who was in the American Psychiatric Association asking for ad hominum reviews on the subject of Dianetics. These people absolutely felt that we were cutting across their vested interests, and the lengths with which they have gone to destroy Scientology and Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard is absolutely mind-boggling. They attempted to do so through the 1950s. First they tried to attack L. Ron Hubbard's credibility, then they recruited the American Medical Association and the Food and Drug Administration, and they then proceeded to infiltrate our organization. Koppel: May I-- Miscavige: No, no, let me finish-- Koppel: May I stop you just for a moment? Because, you know, when you talk about undermining L. Ron Hubbard's credibility -- and again, I have no idea whether that video and the tape that we heard-- Miscavige: Yeah, but why don't touch on that? Koppel: …that we heard was representative of L. Ron Hubbard. But when I hear about a man talking about having been taken out to the Van Allen space radiation belt of space ships that were essentially the same thing as the DC-8, I've got to tell you, I mean, if we're talking about this man's credibility, that certainly raises some questions in my mind about his credibility. Miscavige: Okay. Well, let me ask you, have you read any books on Dianetics or Scientology? Koppel: I've been reading little else over the last two days. Miscavige: You see, here-- Koppel: I must confess, I'm not a student of-- Miscavige: But you haven't read "Dianetics" or any books on Scientology? Koppel: You're absolutely right.
Miscavige: Okay, fine. Then that's why you would make a comment like that? I mean, let's not joke around here. That bit that Forrest did there pulled out of context items. And let's not forget something else, by the way. I told Forrest Sawyer -- and I was open about this the whole time, I have been in communication with "Nightline" numerous times -- I said, "Forrest, if something comes up, you want to bring me up an allegation, you confront me it before this so I can do away with this garbage and not have to do it on the program." "Dave, I promise you I'll do it." Numerous calls have been put in to him. I have never heard it from him. I never heard about these. To do that is take anything out of context. Ted, when I talk about-- Koppel: Can you-- Miscavige: No, but let me just give you an analogy. Koppel: You know that there are going to be a lot of folks out there -- and I'm sure there are a lot of Scientologists, and I don't want to offend anyone who truly believes this -- but there are a lot of people out there who will look at that. You say it was taken out of context. Take a minute, if you would, and see if you can put it into context for us so that it does not sound ridiculous. Because, quite frankly, the way it sounded there, it sounded ridiculous. Miscavige: Okay. Well, let me tell you-- Let me ask you to do this, then: I want you to take the Catholic Church and take right now and explain to me, to make sense that the Virgin Mary was a virgin, scientifically impossible, unless we're talking about something-- Okay, I'll be like you. I'll be the cynic. If we're talking about artificial insemination, how could that be? If you're talking about going out to heaven, xcept we have a space shuttle going out there, we have the Apollo going out there, you do that. I'm not here-- Koppel: I will-- Miscavige: Wait-- Koppel: I will-- Miscavige: I'm not here to talk-- Koppel: Let me do it, and you're-- You were a Catholic as a child, right? Miscavige: Yeah. Koppel: So you know full well that those issues are questions of faith. Are you telling me that what we have heard L. Ron Hubbard say on this broadcast this evening, that they, to Scientologists, are issues of faith? If that's what you tell me, then that's fine. Miscavige: No, no. As a matter of fact-- Koppel: Then it doesn't have to be explained logically. (crosstalk) Miscavige: Talk about the Van Allen Belt or whatever is that, that forms no part of current Scientology, none whatsoever. Koppel: But what did he mean when he was talking about it? Miscavige: Well, you know, quite frankly, this tape here, he's talking about the origins of the universe, and I think you're going to find that in any, any, any religion, and I think you can make the same mockery of it. I think it's offensive that you're doing it here, because I don't think you'd do it somewhere else. Koppel: I'm not mocking it. I'm asking you a question, and you know, you turn it around and ask me about Catholicism. I say we're talking about areas of faith. Miscavige: Well, it's not even a matter of faith, because Scientology is about you, yourself and what you do. You're bringing up something that isn't part of current Scientology, that isn't something that Scientologists study, that is part of some tape taken from, I have no idea, and asking me about it and asking me to put it in context. That I can't do. Koppel: All right. So this has nothing to do with your faith today? Miscavige: If you read any books on Scien-- No. Van Allen Belt? Absolutely not. Nothing. Koppel: All right. Okay. We're going to continue our discussion in just a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) |
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Koppel: I'd like to begin, Mr. Miscavige, with, I guess, the kind of broad question that perhaps folks at home may be asking themselves right now. But let me be the guinea pig for a moment. See if you can explain to me why I would want to be a Scientologist.
Miscavige: Because you care about yourself and life itself. Scientology, the word means study of life, study of knowledge, and that's where it is. It takes up all areas of life itself, things that are integral and maxims that are related to life and very existence. Let me give you an example. It's better if I take that, because it is such a broad-ranging subject covering so many different areas, the subject of communication. This is something that major breakthroughs exist in Scientology, being able to communicate in the world around you. And I think everybody would agree that this is an important subject. Well, there's an actual formula for communication which can be understood. You can drill on this formula of communication, and learn to drill, but moreover, take the person who has trouble communicating, has-- Well, for some reason he can't -- anxiety, whatever.
Koppel: I'll tell you what. Let's stick with me, okay? So far in life I haven't had a whole lot of trouble communicating. Now see if you can communicate to me what it is that you're going to be able to do for me that makes me a better communicator. Miscavige: Well, I don't-- In Scientology you don't do anything for somebody else. Scientology is something that requires somebody's active participation. Koppel: Then, fine, I-- Miscavige: It certainly-- Let me explain something-- Koppel: I want to participate, I want to be active completely. We are looking theoretically-- Miscavige: What in your life, Ted? What in your life do you not feel is right, that you would like help? Koppel: I feel perfectly comfortable with my life. I like my job, I'm happy with my family, I love my wife, I'm healthy. I'm perfectly content, that's why I'm asking you what is it you can do for me. Miscavige: Well-- Well, number one, I would never try to talk you into that Scientology's for you. You see, that's the funny thing about this, as if I'm now going to give a sales pitch to you on Scientology. Believe me, Scientology's valuable enough that it doesn't require any sales pitch. But let's look at it this way, then, what Scientology does. If you look out across the world today, you could say that if you take a person who's healthy, doing well, like yourself, you'd say that that person is normal, not a crazy, not somebody who's psychotic, you look at a wall and they call it an elephant. Would you agree with me on that? Koppel: So far I've got no problem. Miscavige: Okay. And you can see people below that, and crazy people, criminals, that I think society in general will look at and say, "That breed of person hasn't something quite right because they're not up to this level of personality." You can understand that. Well, we in Scientology are not-- You see, all past attempts have been to bring man up to somebody's standard of what's normal. What we are trying to do in Scientology is take somebody from this higher level and move them up to greater ability. You see, we're interested in the-- Koppel: What about those folks "down there"? Miscavige: Well, yes, no, you wouldn't-- We don't ignore them. But my point is this: Scientology is there to help the able become more able. The guy who's going around, he's working, he's trying to make it, these people generally have something in their life that they would like to improve and, in any event, if you can increase that person's ability, the one who's chipping in, the one who's able, and bring him up higher, this sphere of influence that he affects in the world around him can be much greater, and he can get on and do better. Koppel: Now, Mr. Miscavige, when you and I talked the first time, a few months ago, I said to you I was going to come after you on some of these issues. I am a cynic, by nature. I guess that's why I like being a reporter. What you have described to me there fits perfectly with the image that I have of Scientology. Namely, you're interested in folks who are producing. Another way of saying that is you're interested in folks who've got money and who can pay to work their way up the Scientology ladder. Miscavige: Well, you see, that's where you miss the point, because in fact, you know, this subject of money comes up, but you've got the wrong issue there. The subject of money is, where's it going. You see, another part that isn't in that piece, the money in Scientology isn't going to me. It's not going to my colleagues. That's a fact. That's a fact. You can call up the IRS and find that fact out. They've audited our records and seen all of that, and none of that money is going anywhere. As a matter of fact, the officials in the church are paid far less and live far more frugal existences than any other church leader. Our money goes to social causes that we accept. You take these people. We are the largest social reform group in the world, do far more than any other church. For the last two years we have been voted the community outreach group of the year in Los Angeles. Koppel: By whom? Miscavige: By the local city council. The senate of California passed a resolution that's for our work with underprivileged children in California. We work on getting drug addicts off drugs. We support Narconon, which is a drug rehabilitation center using the drug rehabilitation technology of L. Ron Hubbard. There are 33 centers around the world. Over 100,000 people have been gotten off drugs. We sponsor educational programs. Several years ago in just-- Wait, in just one instance, we worked with-- Koppel: I don't want to minimize any of that-- Miscavige: But wait-- Koppel: But how does that make your group the-- How did you put it -- that you do more to help?-- Miscavige: Social reforms, helping people. Koppel: Social reform-- Miscavige: Sure. Koppel: …than any other group in the world. More than the Catholic Church, more than-- Miscavige: Well, no, more accurately is per size. And when you put it in that rate -- in other words, how big Scientology is compared to any others -- the amount that we do on that subject, there's not even anybody comparable. Koppel: Okay. We've got to take a break, we'll continue our discussion with David Miscavige in a moment. ("Dianetics," sales worldwide 14.6 million, languages 22) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) |
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Koppel: Joining us live tonight is David Miscavige, whose formal title is chairman of the board of the Religious Technology Center, the organization which manages Dianetics and Scientology. Mr. Miscavige took over as the head of Scientology in 1987 following the death of the church's founder, L. Ron Hubbard. You've been sitting here very patiently for the first 15 minutes. It's your turn. We're going to take a short segment here to talk, and then we'll take a break, and then we've got the rest of the program to talk. Where would you like to pick up on what many in our audience, I suspect, have seen for the first time about the Church of Scientology?
Miscavige: Yeah, well, I think-- You know, I guess the first thing I would like to take up is the fact that the intro piece-- There's no question that there's some controversy surrounding Scientology, but if you want to look at what the real controversy is, there's been stories like this one that we saw here for the past 40 years, and yet during that time period Scientology's continued to grow. In fact, it's 25 times larger today than it was in 1980. I would just like to take up a few of the falsehoods that are in there, because I think this explains a lot why you have the controversy. I don't know that Scientology lends itself so well to the press. In this instance, we did agree that we would have your correspondents come in, and in fact, he did have unlimited access to the church. But then you get a piece like this. For instance, something that isn't mentioned in there is that every single detractor on there is part of a religious hate group called Cult Awareness Network and their sister group called American Family Foundation. Now, I don't know if you've heard of these people, but it's the same as the KKK would be with the blacks. I think if you interviewed a neo-Nazi and asked them to talk about the Jews, you would get a similar result to what you have here. The thing I find disingenuous is that it's not commented upon, and yet, in fact, your correspondent Forrest and Deanna Lee were aware of this fact. And not only that, that is the source of where they, they received these people to talk to. They didn't find them randomly-- Koppel: Well, if I may just interrupt for a moment: You realize there's a little bit of a problem in getting people to talk critically about the Scientology because, quite frankly, they're scared. Miscavige: Oh, no, no, no, no. Koppel: Well, I'm telling you-- Miscavige: No, no, no, no. Let me tell you-- Koppel: I'm telling you people are scared. Miscavige: Let me explain something to you. The most disingenuous thing is that you have those people. Now, let's not give the American public the wrong impression, that these are people that randomly were pulled in from around the world and that they decided to talk against Scientology. Those people aren't scared and they've been loudly speaking in the press. You showed me a book you had before this show that has many detractors, same ones, so they're not really frightened. That's a good story-- Koppel: Actually, that wasn't a book, it was a collection of articles-- Miscavige: Let me finish. Koppel: …that has been written about you and the church. Miscavige: But the same people were quoted. Koppel: No. What I was saying is the reason, perhaps, that we only hear from those folks is that there are a lot of other people who might be considered detractors of the church, and they, who do not belong to any organization, are, quite frankly, afraid to come out and speak publicly. Miscavige: Well, I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry, that story doesn't hold water, because I'll tell you, from my perspective, the person getting harassed is myself and the church. Let me give you an example. We did make access possible for Forrest. That isn't to say that he took advantage of it, Ted. For instance, the subject of money comes up, it comes up routinely, and I'm sure we might bring it up later on in this show. But I, in fact, had the highest contributors of Scientology gathered up so that Forrest could interview them, to ask them why they gave money to the church and how much they had, and believe me, it's larger figures than these people are talking about. He told me he didn't have time. I said, "Please, I mean, they're here." He said, "No, I don't have time, I don't want to see 'em." I offered for him to go down to our church headquarters in Clearwater, Fla., where 2,000 parishioners are there at any given time from all over the world. In other words, he would get a cross-selection of people from Germany, England, California, Florida, Spain, Italy, you name it. Didn't want to go, didn't have time. So to represent also that this is what the church puts forth isn't so. Here's what I find wrong and here's what I find the common mistake the media makes. I can give you a hundred thousand Scientologists who will say unbelievably positive things about their church to every one you add on there, and I not only am upset about those people not being interviewed, they are, too. And the funny thing about it, and why you find this not really being that one who speaks in the media, is because not just myself, any Scientologist, will open up a paper, will watch this program, they're probably laughing right now, saying, "That isn't Scientology." That's what makes media. Media is controversy. I understand that. And if you really looked at the big picture of what's happening in Scientology, it isn't really controversial, certainly to a Scientologist. Koppel: Okay. We are going to have to take a break. Miscavige: Very good. Koppel: I hope you understand that there's a little bit of a paradox in your saying, you know, "We're not going to get a chance to listen to what Scientology is really about"; we have with us, after all, since you were courteous enough to join us-- Miscavige: Oh, absolutely, I'm just trying-- I'm just trying to correct this, that's all. Koppel: I understand, and we're going to be spending the rest of this hour, in which I'll have a chance to talk to you and you can clear up some of the misconceptions we have. Miscavige: Absolutely. Koppel: Okay? Miscavige: Okay. Koppel: We'll continue our discussion in a moment. ("Dianetics," a best-seller for a record 100 consecutive weeks (1986-1988).) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) |
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With the war Hirohito lost all but symbolic power. Installed as Crown Prince in 1916 and enthroned as Emperor ten years later, he was pressed by General Douglas MacArthur to relinquish his claims to divinity in 1946. Under the 1947 constitution the Emperor was identified as nothing more than "the symbol of the state and of the unity of the people."
戦争で、天皇は、象徴的権力以外のすべてを失った。
１９１６年に、皇太子となり、その１０年後に即位された天皇は、１９４６年、ダグラスマッカサ元帥に強いられて、現人神でない旨を宣言した。
１９４７年制定の憲法においては、天皇は、「国家と国民の統合の象徴」にすぎないと規定されている。
Akihito's accession had been meant to herald a new era in which the imperial office would be free of the controversy that surrounded his father, Emperor Hirohito, for his role in World War II. But it coincided with the publication in the magazine Bungei Shunju of some recently discovered notes on conversations between Hirohito and aides in 1946, in which he discussed his role prior to Pearl Harbor. "It was unavoidable for me as a constitutional monarch," he said, "to do anything but give approval to the Tojo Cabinet on the decision to start the war." Had he opposed the attack, the result most probably would have been a coup d'etat. The country would have been violently and pointlessly divided because in any case war was inevitable. As the U.S. pivoted its great war effort from Europe to the Pacific, it came face to face with a startling fact—it was waging war against a god. Its sea armada had already crushed his island outworks. Its planes were pulverizing his cities. Now its armies were preparing to invade the sacred soil of his homeland.
To the god's worshipers this would be a sacrilege such as the desecration of a church would be to the invaders. Most Americans were unaware of the sacrilege.* To them this god looked like a somewhat toothy, somewhat bandy-legged, thin-chested, bespectacled little man. But to 70 million Japanese he was divine. He was the Emperor Hirohito. Slowly, as they came to bloody grips with their exotic enemy, Americans were beginning to realize that to the Japanese mind (an entity utterly alien to them in culture and almost as uncontemporary with them as Neanderthal man), the Emperor Hirohito was Japan. In him was embodied the total enemy. He was the Japanese national mind with all its paradoxes—reeking savagery and sensitivity to beauty, frantic fanaticism and patient obedience to authority, brittle rituals and gross vices, habitual discipline and berserk outbursts, obsession with its divine mission and sudden obsession with worldly power. In this sense, the war against Japan was inevitably a war against its Emperor. In this sense, the great U.S. military redeployment from West to East was aimed directly at the myth of the divine Mikado, ruling a divine nation on the warpath. Grimy U.S. soldiers and marines who were last week digging out their diehard enemy from the caverns of Okinawa and Luzon were just as surely digging out this myth from the dark corners of the Japanese mind. Who was this man who was also a god? The Clouds of Time. The Emperor Hirohito's millennial origins were lost in the clouds of time. In the beginning, say the Japanese history books, Heaven & Earth were one, a primal protoplasm drifting in the void like a jellyfish on water. Then the Universe took form. On the Plain of High Heaven the first gods appeared. The Sky Father, Izanagi, stood upon the Rainbow Bridge to Earth and dipped his jeweled spear into the sea. The drops that fell, as he withdrew the blade, congealed into the Japanese archipelago. The Sky Father purified himself by bathing in the sea that washed Japan. He washed his nose: the Storm God was born. He washed his right eye: the Moon God appeared. He washed his left eye: lo! resplendent Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess, leaped into being. Later, the Sun Goddess sent her grandson, Prince Rice-Plenty, to govern the Earth. In good time, the Sun Goddess' great-great-grandson, Jimmu, became Japan's first emperor. He commanded his descendants to bring all the eight corners of the universe under the one roof of Japan. Thus, in the year 660 B.C. began the divine dynasty whose 124th scion is the Emperor Hirohito, the Magnanimous-Exalted, the Sublime Majesty, the Imperial Son of Heaven of Dai Nippon (Great Japan), in whose reign the Japanese nation was fated to attempt to carry out the Emperor Jimmu's command. Scion of the Ages. Hirohito was born in the lying-in chamber of Tokyo's Aoyama Palace on April 29, 1901. Japan itself was suffering a rebirth. It was 48 years since U.S. Commodore Matthew Calbraith Perry had opened the ports of the Land of the Gods to U.S. trade and western ideas. Four years hence Japan would defeat vast, backward Russia and emerge as a foremost Pacific power.
His grandfather, the reigning emperor, was the bold, shrewd Emperor Meiji, in whose name the nation had resolutely turned toward the West. Hirohito's father was the ailing Yoshihito, who died insane. Careful & Colorless. The gods favor obscurity, and Hirohito's early boyhood was as obscure as a god could wish. He was brought up in imperial privacy, and rarely exposed to the eyes of his future subjects. (A memorable occasion was the day he deigned to visit the zoo.) He is reported to have been a quiet, rather colorless, careful little boy—the kind of child who in the U.S. always eats his spinach. (Even today, though he is growing a little stout and his uniforms are rather tight in the wrong places, Hirohito is abstemious in his eating and drinking habits and a vigorous respecter of the modern gods of nutrition.) Though slight and thin-shouldered, he practiced every sport, even wrestling. He was best at swimming. Years later he confessed: "I am not really good at any sport. In swimming, however, I rather think I can hold my own." Ferocious Masks. In the quiet and careful seclusion of the imperial boyhood, war and the warrior mind, like the ferocious masks of Japanese No plays, loomed always in the background. Two of Hirohito's earliest mentors were the war lords who had made modern Japan a power—stern General Maresuke Nogi, the victor of Port Arthur, and Admiral Heihatiro Togo, who, at Tsushima, had sunk most of Russia's feckless fleet in one of history's decisive naval battles. When the future emperor was ten years old, Emperor Meiji died and General Nogi dramatized the most important element in the boy's education—Shinto—by an act that startled the world and can scarcely have failed to impress the child. When the aging General and his wife learned of Meiji's death, they purified themselves by Shinto rites. Then according to the old Shinto practice of junshi (servants following masters in death), they knelt before their household shrine and with ceremonial swords committed hara-kiri by eviscerating themselves. Later, Americans, shocked and baffled when trapped Japanese soldiers blew themselves to bits with hand grenades, or Japanese civilians drowned themselves rather than surrender, might recall General Nogi's act, with a shudder. |
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